SPOILERS WITHIN

[furyofvissarion]

Harry Potter & the Deathly Hallows - J. K. Rowling. I was pretty underwhelmed, actually: more relieved that it's just over already! There were bits I really liked--like the resurgence of the DA, & oh, Neville! Neville kicking butt! And Luna--her serenity in the face of everything, & the portraits she had in her room, &, yes.

I hated what was done to Tonks, though--let's make her pregnant & shove her out of the way, & then have her come back after she gives birth, seemingly more interested in protecting Lupin than in fighting Voldemort. And then they both die. And Harry bashing Lupin for leaving Tonks while she's pregnant to go fight? What about all that "for the greater good" stuff you were so into, Harry? What, no one else fighting has kids they're leaving @ home?

I liked the way Dumbledore was shown to not be perfect, no one is good & evil unmixed, & people can change, blah blah. Harry was an annoying git through most of the book, & I'm still annoyed that he did the whole Spiderman thing, breaking up w/Ginny @ the end of the last book. I did think that Ron & Hermione's relationship was fairly realistic, for teenagers under an incredible amount of stress.

I liked getting to see what Snape had been going through, playing his dangerous double game, but I found the whole "I did it all for the love of Lily" thing to be maybe a tad bit overdone, even tho' I liked the general idea.

Was glad as Hermione to see Ron giving a shit about the house elves (poor Dobby! And I loved how they all came out fighting @ the end, led by Kreacher--what happened w/that Death Eater that Hermione accidentally gave access to 12 Grimmauld Place, tho'?).

The whole "Harry dies & chats w/Dumbledore, only he's not really dead" thing confused me, arrrgh. Draco's mom faking out Voldy about Harry being dead was cool, tho'. Harry losing the stone that was part of the Deathly Hallows seems like an open door for some kind of sequel/side book, except I assume Rowling won't do that. Expect the stone to be found & fought over in fanfic. Mrs. Weasley kicking butt over Ginny was fun, & the return of Percy was just great--he's such a prat, but a repentant prat, & that was super sweet. Glad to see he got to see Fred again before he bit it (sniff!!).

I loved pretty much all the Battle of Hogwarts--I just have a kink for big scary endgame battle scenes like that. I thought that showcased the sorts of things Rowling is good @: cute/funny/apt details. She's still not a v. good actual writer--I like her ideas, but some of her descriptions are so clunky, as well as some of her dialogue (tho' some of it's quite funny & sharp). And could we fine her every time she uses a damn ellipsis, please? Also, the epilogue sucked. I really hate books that jump so far ahead @ the end, like it's an afterthought. I was interested to see that apparently Ron & Hermione have not felt like they had to name a child in memory of Fred, which seemed a bit cold.

Comments

[liseuse.livejournal.com]

The epilogue was hideous. They all fight for the wizarding world, and then go off and have children. What jobs are they doing? What political organisation have they got now? Who else survived? I care not about your stupid children and the dreadful names you gave them. Seriously, Albus Severus Potter. That poor child.

I thought it was weird that Hermione and Ron didn't call a child Fred. Perhaps some other Weasley got their first. Maybe George found someone who would put up with his bad jokes, and he called his child Fred. Or perhaps Percy.

I'd forgotten about the random Death Eater in 12 Grimmauld Place. Perhaps he's still there chatting to Mrs Black, or Kreacher killed him in a fury.

[furyofvissarion.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I guess the epilogue was just to hammer home the point again that it's all about family for Rowling. Which, y'know, great, but... I want to know about all your unanswered questions!

Also, why 19 years?

[exchangediary.livejournal.com]

I just finished this last night & am kind of nerding out over picking it apart, so forgive me if this is long.

I was pretty underwhelmed, actually: more relieved that it's just over already!

I felt the same way. It's not that I was expecting it to be my favorite book, but it seems as though the HP books are never quite as good as I want them to be. There always seems to be something lacking for me.

I hated what was done to Tonks

Same here - Tonks has never been one of my favorite characters, but I was not into the whole depressed -> married -> pregnant -> dead-chain of events. It seemed out of character and unnecessary to me.

What, no one else fighting has kids they're leaving @ home?

I'm glad that you brought this up, it's something I never really considered. I think (partially because of the way that the books are written) I really only care about/consider the main characters, which effectively renders every single minor character to be invisible.

Draco's mom faking out Voldy about Harry being dead was cool, tho'.

I thought that scene was pretty cool. It was just nice to see her do something, even if it was totally self-interested.

Mrs. Weasley kicking butt over Ginny was fun

That was one of the few moments of the book that I actually responded to out loud. I have kind of mixed feelings about Mrs. Weasley, so it was nice to see her get out & become a part of things & do damage.

The cute/funny/apt details are basically what keep me interested in reading her books. If it weren't for fun quirks and great little lines here and there, I don't think I'd have a whole lot to get excited about that couldn't be found elsewhere.

I definitely wasn't into the epilogue, though, for me, the fact that Ron & Hermione didn't name one of their children after Fred wouldn't have seemed like such a big deal if Harry & Ginny didn't give their kids such grossly significant names. Which seems sort of cheesy to me, but I guess in that situation, how could you not?

[furyofvissarion.livejournal.com]

I thought Tonks had so much potential that just got thrown aside all the time. Sigh. I'm all for dangerous/wrong love affairs, but... bah.

I love Mrs. Weasley, & was glad to see her kicking butt, but... of COURSE it was in defense of her child, right? I mean, obviously everyone in the battle was trying to defend their friends/girlfriends/children, etc. But the one moment (I think?) that we see Mrs. Weasley doing something violent like that--what was she doing for the rest of the battle?--was as her role as a mother... Which, yeah. Mothering is important, duh. I just wish she'd been more than the mama bear protecting her cubs @ the end, as I'm sure she has the potential to be!

I didn't think the kids' names were cheesy (altho' Albus Severus is an awful name), I guess just b/c I figure ppl here name kids after their parents & stuff all the time, even w/o a war. Heh.

Your point about the major characters & how caring about them renders the minor characters invisible--yeah, I definitely think it's something about the way Rowling has written the books that encourages that viewpoint.

[nevers.livejournal.com]

the “i did it all for lily” was definitely overdone. his dying wish is to look into "lily"'s eyes? that aren't even really hers? i dunno.

i definitely liked how all the house elves were redeemed. made SPEW into a full plot thread rather than an embarrassing flight of fancy of hermione's.

where was the stone lost? i wasn't reading super closely at that point but if it's near hogwarts, SURELY some student is going to find it… also i wasn't convinced that afte having been destroyed beyond all of magic's putting it back together again, it still functioned to its original purpose.

[furyofvissarion.livejournal.com]

Yes re: the house elves! I hated how they were always just treated as another way that Hermione was too nerdy/girly/emotional/over the top to be believed. I still am not really sure that the rest of the wizarding world will come to see that the treatment of house elves is problematic, tho'. I remember getting annoyed @ the house elf thing several books back, & someone on the DWJ mailing list (which I unsubbed from ages ago b/c the ppl on it were annoying) said that they thought Rowling would have a clever plan to show that Hermione was right & that Rowling wasn't just making a dumb analogy to slavery w/o thinking about its real implications, & I was dubious, & I still am.

I think the stone was lost in the forest? Can't remember exactly. :P

[nevers.livejournal.com]

0h yes, i also loved mrs weasley kicking butt, but i was surprised that people seemed to love the “not my daughter, you bitch” line. maybe it's just because i'm extra conscious of language because i write children's books? but i was really surprised to see the word “bitch” in there and i didn't think it fit at all. surely she could have used a more coloring and/or wiarding insult?

[nevers.livejournal.com]

er, colorFUL, or wiZarding.

[furyofvissarion.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the "bitch" seemed a bit out of place, like what would be written in for the movie version of the book b/c it would get the audience going "Oh shit! Oh shiiiiiit yeah!"

But also I felt uneasy about how the only time we see Mrs. Weasley kicking butt is in defense of her child. What the hell was she doing during the rest of the battle? Can we see some more of her power coming out, please?

[takumashii.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree with just about all of that.

I think that the relationship between Fred and George is perhaps one of the best portrayals of a twin relationship that I've seen in fiction--either you end up talking each other out of bad ideas, or you end up talking each other into all kinds of bad ideas. So looking at it from George's point of view, I'm glad Ron and Hermione didn't call their kid Fred; it would be a little bit heartbreaking to have a nephew with the same name as my dead twin.

[furyofvissarion.livejournal.com]

Y'know, the more I think about it, the more disappointed I am that there isn't any hint of what happened to George in that stupid epilogue. I know she probably wrote it before she even thought about George & Fred much, but... it would be nice to know.

Good point re: the angst of having a nephew w/your dead twin's name... altho' maybe he'd appreciate the tribute? Eh, dunno.

[kythryne.livejournal.com]

I read somewhere that the epilogue was written back when she first started the series, and she didn't bother to edit it at all, just tacked it on at the end.

Of course, I also read somewhere else that she let her kid write it, which seems more plausible to me given how badly it reads.

[furyofvissarion.livejournal.com]

Gah. Just tacking ANYTHING on the end of a book just strikes me as incredibly shoddy writing.

I am snickering @ the idea of her kid having written it.

[pennski.livejournal.com]

I had fairly low expectations of this one, and so I quite enjoyed reading it. I'm afraid the house-elf thing remained an embarrassing "sensitive" portrayal of slavery.
I did feel that Rowling perhaps enjoyed killing off an awful lot of minor characters. My husband kept saying "has anyone died yet?" so it was great fun to be able to say "yes - page 58 - oh and yes again, page 65".

I've seen the whole "not really dead" thing too many times before. I was glad to see Snape really had been a double agent and not just an unconvincing single agent. I liked the fact that James Potter remains a privileged bully.

And it was nice that our 3 heroes got cheesed off with Dumbledore not explaining things. I felt it was unfair that only Ron suffered from the human trait of being grumpy when tired and hungry.

Hm, think this comment has just turned into a post.

[furyofvissarion.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, I kept giving Phredd updates, like, Mad-Eye Moody just got killed. George lost his ear. OMG Hermione is being TORTURED! (& as I forgot to mention in this post, didn't Hermione have any PTSD? I thought it was odd that she cried for a week when Ron left but has no noticeable reaction to being tortured!)

I agree that it was realistic of them to be pissed off w/Dumbledore, but @ the same time I just got tired of them, esp. Harry, whining about it.

[giantessmess.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I'm not the only one pissed off with the fate of Tonks. I can't imagine why her character did such a flip. babies babies motherhood babies. So much depth in the way Rowling depicts the roles of women.

But be that as it may, I loved it - as much as I love any Harry Potter book, which is in pieces. The Hogwarts battle was awesome. And I'm glad Snape wasn't just 'evil'. That would have been unimaginative.

The whole dead jedi talk with Dumbledore was a bit irritating, but the epiologue was worse. Maybe skipping far in the future is her ingenious way of making us never want to know any more about the series?

Poor Dobby and Hedwig.

[liseuse.livejournal.com]

as much as I love any Harry Potter book, which is in pieces

I'm coming to the conclusion that this is how I love these books. Short contained segments are always my favourite bits. I don't care for the entirety of the books, but each book has a few sections I adore.

[wrdnrd]

Ha! "Dead Jedi." One of my spousal unit's co-workers has been referring to Dumbledore as being "'Obi Wan Kenobi' dead," which turned out to be startingly accurate.

And, OMG, Hedwig!! After i finished that chapter i stopped, went to bed (well, it was 2am the night/morning i got the book) and curled against my husband, and just *sniffled* myself to sleep. I was also pretty saddened by Dobby's death, tho' not surprised. Interestingly, i think i was more affected by the death of the non-human characters than i was by any of the humans.

[furyofvissarion.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think in pieces is the best way to take it. Maybe even the whole series--I dunno if I'll ever reread the whole thing, but I love how OotP gets all dark & I LOVE LOVE LOVE Dumbledore's Army.

And yeah: Rowling shows about as much depth portraying women as she does w/POCs.

[wrdnrd]

Oh. My. God. You and i seem to almost 100% agree on a book. Good lord, i thought such a day would never come!!

SPOT ON about Tonks. Oh, i wanted to love her so much. Curse you, Rowling!! [shakes fist]

And i was glad that Hermione's SPEW thing actually *went* somewhere and wasn't just a youthful "fight the system!" thing. Tho' Hermione has been saying since at least book 4 that "she wants to do some good in the world." Maybe i should have taken her at her word.

I've posted my thoughts over in the newsgroup, if you're curious.

[furyofvissarion.livejournal.com]

Alert the media! (re: us agreeing)

I rarely read HP fic; there's just too much crap out there for it to be worth my while to wade through it all. But I may have to go look for some AU Tonks-ness.

[wrdnrd]

I found all the names on the platform in the epilogue to be really confusing -- i had a hard time keeping track of which set of parents each kid belonged to and which of each set of siblings were older/younger. RE: Ron and Hermione's kids names, i wondered if they were named after her parents? They're really Muggle-sounding names compared to the names given to kids by other witches and wizards. I have a vague recollection of having read her parents names, but i can't think which book it might have been in. [shrug]

I wondered if we jumped forward 19 years so we could specifically see Albus Severus (blech!) going off to Hogwarts, but i can't see anything especially significant about Albus's leaving. Sure, Harry tells Albus something he's never told anyone else? (or just his kids?, can't remember) -- the bit about almost being sorted into Slytherin -- but it doesn't seem like *that* big a deal.

Bah! Epilogue, you suck BIG TIME!!

[furyofvissarion.livejournal.com]

I was a little confused keeping track of the kids' names too, but mostly I felt like it didn't matter, so I didn't care. The important thing, as far as Rowling was concerned, was that everyone was happily & heterosexually shacked-up, & that childbirth had occurred.

[wickedwhich.livejournal.com]

the lupin/tonks thread just annoyed the crap out of me, for the reasons you mention but also because those two characters, to me, read as queer. and i can, to some extent, understand jkr sticking them together in that sense for a children's book, but would it really have been so detrimental to just leave a few people un-breederified?? and then dead?? come to think of it, it's a rather horribly poetic fate for the two queers, hahaha. someone needs to write an essay about those two, for real.

i have to say that, as much as harry can be dumb as a post and generally adolescent, i still adore him. he got on my nerves a couple times during the book, and it got a bit tiresome that every. single. step. they took led to disaster, but i was so impressed with him at the end that i didn't mind the painfulness of the journey so much.

i'm reserving judgment on the whole deathly hallows thing itself. it felt a bit tacked-on to me, and weird that as the major plot point, it wasn't foreshadowed or referenced in earlier books (afaik, at least). but it worked well for the battle and that's perhaps the most important thing... i did like how harry used expelliarmus to disarm voldemort, never actively murdered him. it reflected nicely with the beginning when lupin was bothering harry about how he should be using "real" spells, etc.

also, so much of the book was intense character exposition that it was a bit of an information dump at times, and i wished jkr had paced that more strategically. i guess that's hard with the finale of such a huge series, though.

and the epilogue... was just plain bad. that's definitely my biggest nitpick, plot-wise. i didn't need it and furthermore didn't want it. i think epilogues in general point to shoddy writing, because you only need to spell it out if you haven't done your job sowing seeds in the book proper. and this epilogue just needed to beat us over the head with how serene and perfect and one-big-happy-weasley-family heteronormative everyone's future was. blech. i understand that she wrote it primarily for herself way back when, in order to have a future to write towards, but i wish so much that she'd kept it as just that, a personal exercise. personally, i wanted to be able to imagine lots of different futures for the characters, and i thought it was unrealistic in the extreme that the wizarding world just resolved into stepford world after voldemort died. i mean, really, come on. after a series that dark? it kind of undoes a lot of the significant themes jkr had been driving at, even. what about house elf liberation? what about the very interesting tidbit of info on the ministry diving magical beings into wandless and wanded species? what about whether teddy is a werewolf, ferchrissakes?? siiiigh.

[wickedwhich.livejournal.com]

*diving=dividing.

also, that got a bit long. might just post it in my own journal as well. ;P

[ascentintochaos.livejournal.com]

i liked when harry told off lupin to stay at home with his kid. it's true that people leave their kids all the time to go and fight, but i liked how harry convinced lupin to buck the trend, to encourage a man to stay at home and support his pregnant wife rather than try and be a hero.

i knew snape was good. too bad he dies, but then harry wouldn't have gotten his thoughts and found out everything. convenient how all snape's thoughts were organized perfectly to put together a story.

and i always wondered about dd's dark side, because that's alluded to throughout the books. i thought dd's dark side would be a lot worse, but it's basically about him being tempted by power, learning some lessons, etc. nothing really earth-shattering.

i liked the house elf bit too. and the story with the wands, and the deathly hallows. (i.e. they're things, not a place!)

i knew harry wouldn't die. i thought in the end his scar would disappear, and i was kinda right, with the king's cross chapter. jkr making him naked in that chapter felt like a nod to daniel radcliffe's in-the-buff theatre production, but maybe his play happened after she finished writing?

the finding of horcruxes seemed too easy. at the end of book 6, i wondered how jkr was going to do that in just one book. and i didn't like how harry was so easily able to see into voldemort's mind without repercussion and "get all the answers." like vm couldn't feel it? i wonder what happened to voldy's body! peeve's song at the end was funny: "voldy's gone mouldy."

and of course the epilogue sucked. the world is a happy place ("all is well") when everyone's heteronormative. UGH.

7.5 hours! wow! i did about 10, including a couple interruptions.

[furyofvissarion.livejournal.com]

"but i liked how harry convinced lupin to buck the trend, to encourage a man to stay at home and support his pregnant wife rather than try and be a hero."

Hm, that sounds a bit Promise Keeper-y to me. I mean, if all these people are leaving their own families to fight, why should Lupin be special? And esp. when it's the sort of thing where it's v. much do or die: what kind of world will Teddy have to grow up in if Voldemort wins?